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--- pathfinder:npc_classes:countryside_commoners [2026/06/29 08:38] – created johnb
+++ pathfinder:npc_classes:countryside_commoners [2026/08/03 07:16] (current) – [Relevant Skills] johnb
@@ Line 16: / Line 16: @@
 //From Food & Lodging (aka Monthly Cost of Living)
-Poor (3 gp/month): The PC lives in common rooms of taverns, with his parents, or in some other communal situation—this is the lifestyle of most untrained laborers and commoners. He need not track purchases of meals or taxes that cost 1 sp or less.
+Poor (3 gp/month): The PC lives in common rooms of taverns, with his parents, or in some other communal situation—this is the lifestyle of most untrained laborers and commoners. He need not track purchases of meals or taxes that cost 1 sp or less.//
-My commoners untrained commoners can live, at subsistence level, just about anywhere I put them.  And if I add in the benefits of a Survival roll, it is even easier to handwave it.//
+My untrained commoners can live, at subsistence level, just about anywhere I put them.  And if I add in the benefits of a Survival roll, it is even easier to handwave it.
 ===== Relevant Skills =====
@@ Line 27: / Line 28: @@
   * You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning half your check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the craft’s daily tasks, how to supervise untrained helpers, and how to handle common problems. (Untrained laborers and assistants earn an average of 1 silver piece per day.)
-**Survival (Wis)**
+  * **Survival (Wis)**
   * //Survive in the Wilderness.  You can keep yourself and others safe and fed in the wild. //
   * DC 10 - Get along in the wild. Move up to half your overland speed while hunting and foraging (no food or water supplies needed). You can provide food and water for one other person for every 2 points by which your check result exceeds 10.   (50/50 chance -  effectively every other day.)
   * Feats If you have the Self-Sufficient feat, you get a +2 bonus on all Survival checks.
+===== DM Artifex Review =====
+Artifex has been a long-term check & balance to my interpretations.  A quality GM with a good understanding of the rules, who is not afraid to speak his thoughts -  good or bad.  I have valued his contributions greatly.
+A couple of things come to mind:
+(in the section of <a href="https://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills#TOC-Skill-Checks1">"Skills" on Taking 10</a>):
+<quote>
+When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10...
+</quote>
+Skills like <a href="https://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/knowledge/">Knowledge</a> list maximum DCs for untrained usage:
+<quote>
+...You cannot make an untrained Knowledge check with a DC higher than 10...
+</quote>
+Craft doesn't mention penalties or limits for being untrained at all, and <a href="https://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/survival/">Survival</a> only lists them for following tracks:
+<quote>
+...you can make untrained checks to find tracks, but you can follow them only if the DC for the task is 10 or lower...
+</quote>
+Insofar as I can see, there's nothing preventing untrained commoners from taking 10, or even taking 20, on Craft skills, and I would hope that they take 10 on Survival checks as a matter of course.
+With that said, I don't see anything even vaguely like a problem with what you've proposed here.
+</quote>