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--- thistletop:start [2026/08/07 19:51] – [Thistletop Hinterland] johnb
+++ thistletop:start [2026/08/08 15:47] (current) – [Thistletop] johnb
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 ====== Thistletop ======
-A complete rework of the plans.  Rather than building a Fort, we change to building a fortified inn and a small settlement surrounding it.
+A complete rework of the plans.  Rather than building a Museum / Fort, we change to building a fortified inn and a small settlement surrounding it.
 ++++Objectives|
 **Reminding myself of the objectives that we set out with.**\\
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 ===== Thistle Bailey =====
-{{ :thistletop:thistletop-inn-bailey.png?200|}}As we have paid for road upgrades, bring the road in through a new gate to the east of the bailey.  It follows the line of the river and makes for better  control and access.
+{{ :thistletop:thistletop-inn-bailey.png?200|}}
+As we have paid for road upgrades, bring the road in through a new gate to the east of the bailey.  It follows the line of the river and makes for better  control and access.
   * Extend the corral to hold more creatures and enable trade / movement / stays at the inn.
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 ===== Thistletop Inn =====
-{{ :thistletop:thistletop-_inn.png?200|}}Convert the living spaces into a ‘cheap’ inn, with bunks rather than accommodation.
+{{ :thistletop:thistletop-_inn.png?200|}}
+Convert the living spaces into a ‘cheap’ inn, with bunks rather than accommodation.
   * Robyn’s bedroom, will be converted into a bar, then add a Bath and Lavs (see floorplan)   I have given myself a few discounts (but less than I would have asked Artifex for)  and costed that at 345gp, from our development budget.
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 So I intend to declare Thistle Woods as [[consolidated:campaignsystem:property#common_land|Common Land]]  which will let us use build a viable country settlement, while meeting Oktar’s objectives of a green, responsible community at the same time.  However, it needs some [[CountryHomeExamples|country homes]], suitable for untrained commoners, added to the list of possible developments.
+**Development Fund**
 The development fund has 255gp left, which is not enough to build anything useful.  I suggest that we release two licences to build Creel Cottages with various ++common land rights| (Forage, Estovers, Minor Pasture, Small Game, Coppice)++.  Cottages to be built somewhere in the woods, close to Thistletop, and over seen by Oktar.  (or Dru if Oktar isn’t available).  Better still be offer ‘support’ in building, no rent for a year and up to 50gp in support costs for the first year.
 While it might not sound like it, this is quite a good deal for a commoner family.  They get an asset (worth 300gp) that comes with quite a lot of economic rights and support in getting it built and settled  - that can be passed down through the family.
 Each Creel House would add 5x residents to the population, and it costs us 100gp and  leaves 155gp in the development pot for emergencies.
+**Raven**
+Raven would like to invest 610gp on a pair of Workers Cottages.  These would also be given a licence for ++common land rights| (Forage, Estovers, Piscary, Coastal, Reed Bed)++.  The cottages to be built down by the river, in a suitable place close to the sea.  While there is no support, this is another good opportunity for a two commoner fisher-families to start building a heritage and legacy.  Raven does not expect to make any money from this investment (initially) although he does (just about)  break-even.  Once the small settlement has settled down, and expanded to Village size, Raven does expect to collect something towards his own Cost of Living Expenses.
+The Workers Cottages would add another 10x residents to the  settlement.  BUT it just about stays a Hamlet - sustainable, not making money for anyone (really) but feeding everyone that lives there.
+**Note on Common Land Rights**:  I have envisioned that each of us will be able to claim a few Common Land Rights to 'sweeten'  deals that encourage people to come  live in Thistletop.  However, we probably need to limit it.  I don't think we want to go bigger than a village -  at best.
+===== Settlement =====
+That leaves us as a Hamlet, with beds for 55 people -  just short of village status.  My personal view is that no one is really making any money, but everyone is scraping by for a bit.  Over a few months things will stabilise, the subsidies will die down and the hamlet will become firmly established.  My (personal) Campaign Rules  will have a system where investments pays for Cost of Living expenses, rather than generatwe income for the PC.  In that system, settlements smaller than a village  (ie our hamlet)  can only support Mobile Businesses, using the Alt Prof rules.  However, the return values haven't been formailsed yet.
-----
+===== General Location =====
-===== Depreciated and destined for deletion =====
-===== Phase 1 =====
-OK - [[a potential new development plan]]
-{{:thistletop:phase1_-_thistletop-g.jpg?200 |}} Phase 1 of the development is funded out of party treasure, and provides for a simple repair and repurpose exercise.  The ground floor living accommodation is being refurbished, to provide three bedrooms, a common room, kitchen and bunk room, while some of the rest is given over to a museum that showcases the party's actions to help protect the local town, Sandpoint, about five miles away.  The Museum incorporates a couple of basement rooms with access to the tunnels, beneath the building.  The basement also incorporates five small bedrooms, destined to be used by Characters.  Part of the ground floor is allocated for a shrine dedicated to Shelyn, the deity of Sir Robyn, the Paladin who acts as Steward of Thistletop.
+Our new road  connects us to the Lost Coast road, which about a mile from Thistletop.  You can follow the  Lost Coast Road north, until it come to Windhanger Abbey, passing small inns every 20 miles or so.  While it is a trade route, it isn’t a very busy trade route.  However, turn south and Sandpoint is only five miles away, beyond Sandpoint, it runs across the Sandpoint Hinterland and becomes a more active trade route.
-In the basement level, there is Temple dedicated to Lamashtu, which has been desecrated <del>but probably needs</del> ++and has been dismantled|(By good sir Robin)++ to ensure that it is never used again and a Tentamort, who resides in a sealed off area.  The tunnels beneath the buildings have been fully explored, but should probably be checked again, at some point, to make sure that they are still safe.
+Now that our new road connects us to this trade route, I would suggest that merchants and travellers would, occasionally, stop into Thistletop bringing some trade with them.  While it won’t be a lot, it should be enough to support a minor economic connection to Sandpoint.
-===== Further Developments =====
+I recall talking to Able about establishing a warehouse and merchant base at Thistletop. I also (vaguely) recall him describing himself as a travelling merchant.  If Able chooses to stay in Thistletop to see this out, it might be worthwhile investing in a couple of pack mules and setting up as a Mobile Business.  Travelling from  Thistletop out to the hinterlands, via Sandpoint, would certainly give us economic links with the rest of the region.
-So far, the only thing that has been decided revolves around improving access.  The current proposal is to cut a road through the woods that surround the holding, retain the rope bridge (but make sure that it is safe) and improve the road down to Sandpoint. (<color #ed1c24>This has funds allocated, and is in progress)</color>
-A longer term objective is to build a dock for coastal, seaborne, traffic.
-Other suggestions, to be funded voluntarily, include ...
-  * **Turn Thistletop into a [[Citadel]].**    A few archers on high points can dominate the bridge, which can be 'cut' in an emergency.  Add Patrols of skirmishers to keep the forest area clear of goblins and other threats, to secure the area.
-  * **Develop [[Bramble-Warren]].**  Clear some of the Bramble-Warren to create a bramble hedged bailey, and build extra businesses with in it, the current suggestions are a Wood Working Shop and an Inn.  (<color #ed1c24>This has been started by clearing an area for horses and other 'beasts of burden'</color>)
-  * **Make Thistletop into a home [[People|Home]].**  There are people, including PCs, who live at Thistletop,  who we need to stay - because they are the core that allows us to develop the place. Without them, we don't have a holding.  However, it needs to feel like a home, rather than ex-gobbo lair in the middle of nowhere.
-  * **Build a [[community]].**  While there are longer term plans to build a settlement alongside Thistletop, we will have a small community well before that comes into force.
-However, those are not firm objectives yet, and need to be implemented alongside each other.  An even more distant possibility, is to develop a village at the mouth of the Thistle River -  which could host the docks and perhaps a tannery -  making it suitable for a mix of fisher folk and hunter/trappers.